Saturday, March 05, 2005

Quote and Re-quote of the Day

Who said this?

"In regard to the colored people, there is always more that is benevolent, I perceive, than just, manifested towards us. What I ask for the negro is not benevolence, not pity, not sympathy, but simply justice. The American people have always been anxious to know what they shall do with us.... I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us! Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us. Do nothing with us! If the apples will not remain on the tree of their own strength, if they are worm-eaten at the core, if they are early ripe and disposed to fall, let them fall! ... And if the negro cannot stand on his own legs, let him fall also. All I ask is, give him a chance to stand on his own legs! Let him alone! ... Your interference is doing him positive injury."


Frederick Douglass: What the Black Man Wants: An Address Delivered in Boston, Massachussetts, on 26 January 1865

Who quoted this?

Clarence Thomas, who liberals deny is really black, in last year's Gruttinger v. Bollinger.

(Hat-Tip: Sobek)

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17 comments:

Imara said...

Two Dogs, you must judge a man by his actions, not his words. Douglas fought for the upliftment of Negros. Thomas, well, what really has he done for "his" people? If you judge by his work... it would seem that his people aren't black. Can you name any examples of where Thomas can be credited with doing anything positive for his race. And I'm not talking about making a donation to UNCF, either!

Two Dogs said...

I can quote myself in this particular exercise. If the Black population would refrain from idolizing 2Pac and Biggie and begin to appreciate the two most powerful Black people in this country, I think that you would see a definite cultural shift here.

With Dr. Rice and Justice Thomas, the mainstream Black community has likened them to Uncle Toms and House Negros. What is ignored is the fact that these PEOPLE have accomplished more than you and I probably ever will. For anyone to rise to the level of Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States is to reach the pinnacle in jurisprudence. To become Secretary of State is to rise to the height of Diplomacy. To ignore the accomplishments of these and other Americans like them, is to allow for the failure of society as a whole.

A thinking person would immediately come to the conclusion that Dr. Rice and Justice Thomas are success stories to be emmulated, not ridiculed. And as a racial minority, it should be PROOF that all are created equal, some just choose not to continue to elevate themselves.

And to ignore the gist of Frederick Douglass' comments, you must either be daft or lazy. He advocated letting a man fail on his own.

soundboyz said...

Two Dogs, I agree with the notion that people should be left alone to either flourish or fall. However, one cannot ignore the facts of the matter.We do not live in a Utopian society and there were/are many factors that have set minorities back.Yes , blacks should be left alone to self determination,but they also MUST be compensated for the murder, rape and cruelty that they have endured.It is not a new concept, it is known as Justice! To take Fredrick Douglas' comments out of the context in which they were spoken and try to apply them now, is disingenuous.He was referring to a time when whites were contemplating sending blacks back to Africa.These comments were not meant to excuse the behavior of Whites towards blacks, nor were these comments relating to what is owed to blacks.Yes , black people are owed reparations and compensation for the sins committed against them.That is the Justice he speaks of as well as the normal concept of justice that SHOULD apply to all, but were NOT!Besides, in those times , asking to be left alone and treated equal was pushing the envelope and it should not be used to represent the sentiments of how blacks feel now!I'ts like being caught in a robbery and kidnapping, you are not going to threaten to prosecute the robbers while in the situation, you would beg for mercy and your life.Now, after surviving the ordeal and the criminals are caught , you would want justice by having them prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.This is all under the assumption that there is REAL Justice!

Two Dogs said...

soundboyz, at the risk of sounding like I am ridiculing your argument; Who the FUCK is going to pay reparations? We are, the TAXPAYERS, because only 2% of the population owned slaves and most of their families are gone. Are you also going to argue that all Blacks should get reparations, when only 14% are actual descendants of slaves? Come on, man, you are intelligent, you simply cannot believe this crap.

Hand out, hand up, whatever you want to call it, you are advocating a society of slavery. Free healthcare for everyone, a home, clothes, food, Tivo, etal. Black people had that when they were slaves in this country. This concept is simply another in the long line of an unmotivated culture.

If you want to draw a line, let's do that. I advocate mandatory college education for all people. As ridiculous as that idea is, it is no more insane than what the reparation advocates are doing. I don't want everyone to go to college, that takes away my mailman, butcher, barber (though I haven't had a haircut in over a year), my trash collector, and the list goes on and on.

If I were to lower my standards enough to stand on the street corner and beg for alms from whitey, I could get those reparations in a week. Or better yet, I could stroll my happy ass down to some government agency and draw my Injun pay. I just want my own casino.

What you simply ignore in calling for justice is the fact that you can always CHOOSE to go somewhere else that you feel (cause it obviously ain't a thought)that you would get FAIR treatment.

What most people in this country take for granted is that you are already in the greatest country in the world, by a landslide.

soundboyz said...

Don't negate the whole arguement because there are problems with it. Sure ,everybody did NOT own slaves, but the Country that you NOW live in allowed slavery to function!So, as a member of this Country, you should pay for compensation for the slavery of blacks. For instance , my parents did not slaughter the Native Americans,(yes that's what they are, Indians live in God Damned INDIA)they did not take Hawaii from the Native people of that country,they did not participate in the Holocaust,But you could bet your self hating ass that their TAXPAYER dollars went towards reparations to those Cases!!!There is a problem in determining who were the direct decendants of slaves,but to wait until all traces of lineage is gone is a god damned shame! Those people deserve reparations!! Fuck it if you don't want to take what is owed to YOU being Native American,that's not my business.I KNOW that Slavery was a shame, it was a Crime against humanity and efforts should be made to correct the greatest injustice to the human race!If the so called JEWS can get reparations for the Holocaust from the US, and we did nothing to them, then I believe, I KNOW that the promise of "Forty Acres and a Mule " should be payed up!! It's not a HANDOUT,it's payment for a debt that has been owed too long!!

Two Dogs said...

I am negating the argument on the grounds that there are huge, gaping, pus-filled problems with it. Those who feel there is something owed them are missing one of the most beautiful concepts of this country. Sure, we made mistakes, as all humans are prone to do. However, we (USA) outlawed slavery before any other country did the same. Why is it that reparations are not owed for all the other races that were enslaved? Why were the Europeans that were forced into Interment camps in the forties not compensated?

soundboyz, this country doesn't OWE me a thing, throughout history, all land was forcibly taken from other people. There is a finite amount of this Earth.

The only reparations argument that has even begun to make sense to me is the one bandied about by the Nation of Islam. In case you are not familiar with this: All Blacks will be relocated to areas inside this country and a new country will be formed. Very few people would even attempt to fracture this country to accomplish this, sooooooooo.

Instead of fighting back at the country that offers me everything that I could ever concieve of wanting, I choose not to turn my back on my people (Americans) and choose to try to contribute to society by being the best damn person I can.

Offer me a cure for cancer and you will get your reparations tenfold. Show me a way to get 500 mpg in my car and you will get a huge check. Stand on the sidelines and cry for something that you feel you are owed and you will get what you EARN.

This has never been a country that was not harsh and forbidding until recently when all men truned into whiney little crybabies. So go out and grab you some capitalism, Kemosabe.

soundboyz said...

You know what , I'm not going to argue with you. The sooner we all forget about slavery , the sooner we will all be as one. Slavery was'nt that big of a deal, and besides,we're free now to do whatever, so let's all get over it.If we forget about it, then nobody would feel that they were victimized, and blacks won't have an excuse why they were born in the slums or the ghettos or are disadvantaged. They need to realize it's because of their inability to learn and achieve that makes them inferior and nothing else.Once they have no excuse , they will quickly realize that they ARE inferior to WHITES and the effects of slavery had absolutely nothing to do with anything.Besides, it only makes whites uncomfortable to know what really happened to blacks,and whites should'nt have to feel uncomfortable for any reason.All of their parents were immigrants too, and they made the best of it. Blacks were just involuntary immigrants .Hey , if anything, they got a free ride, as always!You're Right,What the hell was I thinking?

Two Dogs said...

soundboyz, I hope you don't think that this was an argument, because you and I are wanting the exact same thing or at least I think that we do. My personal goal is for everyone to experience the greatness that is our country. I do not want anyone to gloss over the bad things that lay in our past. History forgotten is history destined to return.

I know the things that I do on a daily basis to recognize the desire of all people to turn around one day and look at their success. I would never look at one race and utter the words that you are inferior, just as I would not let anyone think that they could not succeed with the rules the way they are now.

My point: If I look at someone and see any physical trait that defines them, I diminish the miracle that is that person. We all have desires and wishes that are congruent no matter what race we are. Or to quote a friend of mine......

After spending some time reading other people's blogs, I have come to the realization that people are all the same.I mean this in a good way. The more you read people's thoughts and opinions and information about their daily lives, the more you realize that we are all just people.It's funny how a female from Canada and a male from the mid west can both manage to think the same thoughts and go through the same experiences. It just makes me think, why can't people just do the right thing? I mean , we think the same thoughts, we feel the same feelings, then why can't we just all do what we all know is right? If I know that it's wrong to abuse someone else, and I don't wish to be abused , why is there still abuse? I know this sounds real dumb right now, or maybe not. Maybe others think the same way!

soundboyz said...

Right, you and I know that people are just people.You and I know that deep down we are all the same.You and I want everyone to look past the physical characteristics. You and I know a lot of shit. However, I don't think it's you and I that have the problem!

Two Dogs said...

I don't think that we are the problem either, but that doesn't relieve my responsibility to further the cause. Still want to crack open the debate of voting irregularities or want to piss everybody off with the religion stuff?

soundboyz said...

Shirley!

Imara said...

Very interesting exchange! I say bring on the religion stuff.

soundboyz said...

^Stop instigating Imara.....LOL!

Two Dogs said...

soundboyz, at the risk of sounding like I am ridiculing your argument; Who the FUCK is going to pay reparations? We are, the TAXPAYERS, because only 2% of the population owned slaves and most of their families are gone. Are you also going to argue that all Blacks should get reparations, when only 14% are actual descendants of slaves? Come on, man, you are intelligent, you simply cannot believe this crap.

Hand out, hand up, whatever you want to call it, you are advocating a society of slavery. Free healthcare for everyone, a home, clothes, food, Tivo, etal. Black people had that when they were slaves in this country. This concept is simply another in the long line of an unmotivated culture.

If you want to draw a line, let's do that. I advocate mandatory college education for all people. As ridiculous as that idea is, it is no more insane than what the reparation advocates are doing. I don't want everyone to go to college, that takes away my mailman, butcher, barber (though I haven't had a haircut in over a year), my trash collector, and the list goes on and on.

If I were to lower my standards enough to stand on the street corner and beg for alms from whitey, I could get those reparations in a week. Or better yet, I could stroll my happy ass down to some government agency and draw my Injun pay. I just want my own casino.

What you simply ignore in calling for justice is the fact that you can always CHOOSE to go somewhere else that you feel (cause it obviously ain't a thought)that you would get FAIR treatment.

What most people in this country take for granted is that you are already in the greatest country in the world, by a landslide.

soundboyz said...

Don't negate the whole arguement because there are problems with it. Sure ,everybody did NOT own slaves, but the Country that you NOW live in allowed slavery to function!So, as a member of this Country, you should pay for compensation for the slavery of blacks. For instance , my parents did not slaughter the Native Americans,(yes that's what they are, Indians live in God Damned INDIA)they did not take Hawaii from the Native people of that country,they did not participate in the Holocaust,But you could bet your self hating ass that their TAXPAYER dollars went towards reparations to those Cases!!!There is a problem in determining who were the direct decendants of slaves,but to wait until all traces of lineage is gone is a god damned shame! Those people deserve reparations!! Fuck it if you don't want to take what is owed to YOU being Native American,that's not my business.I KNOW that Slavery was a shame, it was a Crime against humanity and efforts should be made to correct the greatest injustice to the human race!If the so called JEWS can get reparations for the Holocaust from the US, and we did nothing to them, then I believe, I KNOW that the promise of "Forty Acres and a Mule " should be payed up!! It's not a HANDOUT,it's payment for a debt that has been owed too long!!

Two Dogs said...

I am negating the argument on the grounds that there are huge, gaping, pus-filled problems with it. Those who feel there is something owed them are missing one of the most beautiful concepts of this country. Sure, we made mistakes, as all humans are prone to do. However, we (USA) outlawed slavery before any other country did the same. Why is it that reparations are not owed for all the other races that were enslaved? Why were the Europeans that were forced into Interment camps in the forties not compensated?

soundboyz, this country doesn't OWE me a thing, throughout history, all land was forcibly taken from other people. There is a finite amount of this Earth.

The only reparations argument that has even begun to make sense to me is the one bandied about by the Nation of Islam. In case you are not familiar with this: All Blacks will be relocated to areas inside this country and a new country will be formed. Very few people would even attempt to fracture this country to accomplish this, sooooooooo.

Instead of fighting back at the country that offers me everything that I could ever concieve of wanting, I choose not to turn my back on my people (Americans) and choose to try to contribute to society by being the best damn person I can.

Offer me a cure for cancer and you will get your reparations tenfold. Show me a way to get 500 mpg in my car and you will get a huge check. Stand on the sidelines and cry for something that you feel you are owed and you will get what you EARN.

This has never been a country that was not harsh and forbidding until recently when all men truned into whiney little crybabies. So go out and grab you some capitalism, Kemosabe.

soundboyz said...

Shirley!

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