Wednesday, April 09, 2008


In order for the title to even make an ounce of sense, you had to have seen "Where the Buffalo Roam." This post is a simple cut and paste from an e-mail discussion that has been going on for about three weeks. "Chew on this."

So far there have been seventeen responses on this thread, none of which say a damn thing. Then this morning, I received this.

DJ: Vote Obama because he is driven by reason rather than ideology.
Vote Obama because he considers dissenting opinion rather than belittling and mischaracterizing the opposition.
Vote Obama because of his unyielding commitment to public service and policy-making spanning his academic and professional career.

Vote Obama.

Me: One thing that always gets me when debating a political bent or philosophical idea, no one regards individuality as something that is vital to expression and quality of life. If you listen to Obama, that individuality is the very first thing that he is asking you to deny and offer up as a sacrifice to other people. Isn't that kind of important to expression, for instance, in the arts? Even though the other two candidates are not asking you to completely dissolve yourself for the betterment of the whole, yes, I know that they too will eventually get to that point.

Why would someone explicitly promote a candidate for political office that was asking the voter to completely deny the voter's very own existence and individuality? Demand that they not worry about their own well being, but to sacrifice for the nameless, faceless masses?

Is it the "youth factor" of Obama? Obama is older now than Bill Clinton, John Kennedy, and Theodore Roosevelt when they were running. Folks, Obama has NO NEW IDEAS at all, most of his are the old 1920's collectivist crap that Europe embraced and that led to World War II, just do the research. Trust me, I have looked and looked and looked and cannot find one single reason why anyone would believe anything this guy is pushing, he is a politician, from Chicago, where the political machine is the MOST corrupt in our nation. Trust me, the others are no better or only marginally, so I am not pushing another candidate, I'm simply trying to come up with one reason for the apparent huge groundswell of support from the college kids and younger people.

And could someone please offer just ONE SINGLE reason why they could ever become politically motivated to vote for any of the three candidates instead of this sing-song mentality of some kind of collective group hug? It's silly to those of us who simply want to be left alone to live our own lives the way that we see fit. All three candidates are asking us to sacrifice more and more of our money for things that are not important to our families. To me, it is simply scary that our youth is willing to give up everything that is important to their individuality to become a shapeless blob.

TP: Reason #1 You are incorrect in your historic memory and in your ultimate conclusion!

Oh, good lord......

Me: Thanks for the response, but your statement and attack of me is not a reason. Debate between people of differing ideologies is vital to our freedoms. Personal attacks are never necessary and will ultimately end in violence, that is the nature of humans.

And yes, the ideas that Barry Obama are touting are simply rehashing of the fascist ideas of the 1920's. Government control of business with confiscatory taxes on those privately owned businesses is in essence what started World War II because those very tenets cannot sustain growth. Wholesale fascism requires further expansion to accumulate more wealth (conquering more businesses to tax) because production is halted in the area of origin. Against war at all costs? Then Barry Obama is NOT the candidate for you because he is advocating the very policies that start war in all areas that they have been tried, check your history on fascism and list the fascist countries that have not instituted a war. Uh, zero. I guess that you could dispute that, but not with facts.

An actual reason would be: "Obama wants to make the Virgin Islands a state in order for us to enjoy the right to vote and also enjoy oppression in the form of federal income tax." And the VI gets an awful lot of US federal money but the citizens there pay no federal taxes, what a sweet deal. Not to those of us who do pay 51% of our annual income in Fed tax, state tax, FICA and Medicare. Our government took from me more than they actually let me keep last year, how "fair" is that?

Trust me, our government is run by the wealthy elite in the Democrat Party and has been since 1890, if they thought there was anything to gain, anything at all, they would make the VI a state and then you would know full well the oppression of our government. A government that is based on keeping the poor in bondage by promising all to everyone, while still knowing they cannot deliver.

Sadly, Obama is simply more of the same, he is no savior. Your hope should be in yourself and your potential, not in a man that you do not know. Just saying. Now, can you offer a reason for your support of Obama?

This post will be updated IF any reasonable response comes back. There are thirty-one (31) people listed on this thread, I am sure that ONE can come up with a reason for me. Yeah, they simply have to be able.

UPDATE (4:20 pm, this is l-o-n-g):

DJ: Obama does not ask anyone to sacrifice their individuality and i fact champions that so many different types of individuals have united under his campaign. i believe you are equating a nations desire to fund vital social services with a dissolution of individuality. Individuality is actually championed by these movements. Ensuring that all citizens have access to health care, education and security regardless of circumstance provides a foundation for ensuring that citizens have the capacity to express the very individuality we are discussing. You assert that citizens using their collective power through government to provide for the basic necessities of individual growth and expression is somehow a mandate to dissolve individual expression. This ignores that all of these programs actually provide a firm foundation for citizens to express their individual motivations and ideas to their community.

Barack Obama's campaign calls for an affirmation of individuality and culture. He calls for us to recognize that grievances from all sides have some basis in reality. He calls for us to engage in discussion rather than ideological posturing. He insists on individuals having a seat at the policy making table where only corporations have previously sat. His campaign and supporters assert that it is most efficient and beneficial to our national and economic security to provide quality education, health care, and opportunity to all our citizens. Through these measures we realize the dream of providing a foundation for all our citizens to express themselves through their community.

Individuality that ignores the interconnected fabric of all individuals is anathema to collective organization and progress. As a nation we can only be judged as a whole. We are not a success because a few American individuals have managed to succeed. Nations judge us on the overall package. Human rights for the lowest class are as important as ensuring trade among our most powerful corporate entities. All must be able to assert individual interests equally.

Interestingly, Barack managed to pass bipartisan Ethics legislation while operating within the "most corrupt" political machine in our nation.

A majority of Democrats across the spectrum are supporting Obama for a variety of reasons. Some say it is because he is genuine and honest. Some are inspired because he seems willing to tackle issues no other politician would touch. Some are excited at his economic and foreign policy plans. Many note that he is capable of talking meaningfully with opposition. Regardless of the reason - no supporter feels they are being asked to sacrifice their identity. i would argue that many celebrate diversity to a greater extent than other campaigns.

Are our candidates asking us to sacrifice more and more money? Both Democrats offer a series of subsidies and tax breaks to Americans making less than $250,000 a year (more as you get lower with a majority of breaks going to those making $75,000 or less). These subsidies are provided for through a restructuring of the tax system which include rolling back historically huge tax breaks for those Americans making over $250,000 by President Bush. They are provided for through innovative thinking in regards to investments in our citizenry through health care and education. They are also provided for through a restructuring of our military machine. The truth is that large and profitable corporations would receive fewer welfare subsidies while middle class families (and even upper-middle class families) would be paying in less. Democratic candidates would also enforce tighter regulations on corporations which would yield a net economic benefit to workers and small businesses.

Take a deeper look. Perhaps you should question where you are getting information if you are not finding anything beyond hyperbolic statements regarding the dissolution of our individual identities.

ME: (I honestly have no idea why I try, his reply is NOTHING but a continuous stream of contradictions. Remember, contradictions CANNOT exist, or something is wrong with your basic premises.) DJ, I certainly appreciate the response. First things first. To not acknowledge Chicago as being the most corrupt political environment is naive at best. The whole area is rife with pay-offs and theft in both political parties, you cannot dispute that and it goes back to the original gangster (Al Capone comes to mind) era with the entire city run by the mob. I think that we can certainly agree that there is no area of the country that has so much institutionalized corruption as Chicago and by default, Illinois. Remember Mayor Daley's machine throwing the national election to JFK? No man can operate in politics in an area where crime is actually the way of life without getting that mentality upon him, Obama is a man, he is not special, he is no better than you or me, he is simply a man. By the way, you do realize that three of the last seven governors of Illinois, have gone to prison for corruption, right?

As far as your innocence regarding the political process, you are well aware that Obama met with the Billionaires row clan on Tuesday in San Francisco as well, huh? Naw, Obama is not beholden to the corporations and the Getty's of the country. (He even was forced to go in through the service entrance of the house) Obama supporters listen to the man talk and actually believe him, that's nuts. He is a politician and no one gets that power without selling their soul to the highest bidder. The movement picked John F. Kennedy for the same reasons back in the late fifties. We can see what that anointed one did, he used the exact opposite philosophy from the one upon which he ran. He got elected and immediately cut taxes, including capital gains jump starting a slow economy, but basically blundered his way through his foreign policy and pushed us to the very brink of nuclear destruction. That is history.

As far as Obama's record in the Illinois state legislature, after being elected in an overly challenged campaign, rife with ballot abnormalities and fraud, initially, he did NOTHING for the first seven years, none of his proposals were even addressed outside of committee until the January 2003 session. All were collectivism ideological bents after that. Childcare, healthcare, welfare, blah, blah, blah. You can easily check that, even on Wikipedia. And if you recall, he ran for US Senate for most of that time, being elected in 2004, one solid year that he actually did something in Illinois. That is neither here nor there to me because I am not one that places a bunch of weight on past performance in government. Haley Barbour is a great governor and has never held an elected office before. But, you cannot say that Obama has a track record except on his promotion of fascist ideals in his books.

What this Obama campaign is solely about is the campaign rhetoric, there is no record upon which for Obama to run, again, check the facts. He has actually promoted ONE piece of legislation that was passed since he was elected US Senator, of the 129 bills that he has sponsored, 117 have never come out of committee. He has missed 18% of his votes and voted present on 45% for a total of 63% of bills that he has not even entered a vote. These facts can be easily verified, so again, he has accomplished even LESS than Hillary in his tenure in the Senate and she has basically done nothing except look like a lying dumbass. By the way, the ONE bill that he actually sponsored that was signed was some shit about Darfur. Nothing that even affects our country, not even remotely except for spending our tax money.

Bottom line here for me. I currently pay 51% of my income in fed tax, state tax, FICA, and Medicare. I actually should be living below the poverty line but since the income tax is set on actual earnings, I fall heavily into the "wealthy" bracket. As far as the silly healthcare program is concerned, here are the FACTS. Fully 45% of our population receives government subsidized heathcare NOW. Another 48% provides for their own healthcare, this leaves 7% of the population that does not have some type of healthcare coverage. 7% equals 21 million people, if you base our population on 300 million. Of those 21 million, I am quite sure that some simply choose not to purchase healthcare because they have enough wealth to pay for their own medical expenses out of pocket. I simply want to keep what I earn and not have to pay anymore of MY salary in taxes and certainly don't want further policy that discourages business. I honestly do not care if anyone that is not covered ever has healthcare ever. In this country not one soul is denied medical services, not one, legal or illegal.

Let's talk race? No, let's not. Race is not a factor in any thinking person's world, but I do seriously believe there are people that will vote for Barry simply because he is Black and vote for Hillary because she has a vagina and vote for McCain because they are a screechy little mean person or however you want to classify him. Really, I have no idea what the hell he thinks about anything, he doesn't even know. Let the people that find race or sex to be important to government move off in the desert to live alone and die a slow agonizing death. Hate or bigotry should not be tolerated. I certainly hope that no one on this thread thinks that skin color or sex equates to anything other than skin color or sex.

What has happened to the economy since November 2006? What happened in November 2006 to make the economy to go sour? Does the economy like minimum wage increases and new laws or is the economy completely derailed every single time the minimum wage is discussed? Those are questions for your candidate that actually affect your quality of life and your pocketbook.

I'm done hijacking this e-mail thread. If someone wants me, I will be cowering in the corner, figuring out a way to commit fraud to keep what I earn. Even if I have to become a criminal to keep from paying for other people's things. I am on strike from paying any more taxes or FICA. Y'all have at it.

Seriously, you cannot have a serious conversation with hopey-change.